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Marketing Darwinism - by Paul Dunay
Digital Transformation

The Digital Transformation Journey in Mid-Market is Real

A guest post by Romi Mahajan, President KKM Group and Dharmesh Godha, President Advaiya

If the only source of information in the world was the business press, one could forgive anyone for believing that only a few, large companies are important. In the world of technology, we read about Amazon, Google, Facebook, Microsoft, and Apple: We get to know these companies well and through the narratives of the more clever of the journalist breed, even come to understand a few nuances. We hear a bit too about the next layer of companies; still it is fair to say that 90% of articles cover the top 10% of organizations.

What’s lost in this concentrative focus is that SMBs are also worthy of understanding- they are complex and important and can also be very innovative and forward-looking. Some of them are in a growth mode while others’ choose to remain small, nimble, and rewarding to their owners and workers. As in Baseball, not all hits have to be grand-slams- singles can be fine too.

When we take the time to focus on and understand Mid-Sized companies- spread across verticals and industries—we find that they grapple with issues, evaluate opportunities, and look to improve in very much the same way as their larger counterparts do. In some ways, the challenges are more profound: There are less resources in terms of money and people and still the same set of opportunities and technologies to evaluate. The “staying power” of Mid-Sized companies is less (a bad 6 months can lead to bankruptcy) so in fact being agile and responsive to customers is, interestingly, more important than in large enterprises. A few bad hires can ruin a smaller company, so HR and People processes have to be more exacting. It might seem like a Bizarro world- in which everything is inverted—but Mid-Market organizations require, often, a deeper focus.

Given this, the idea of Digital Transformation inevitably creeps in. How can mid-sized manufacturing or distribution companies use the tools of digital modernity to improve all aspects of their businesses? As has been pointed out by Jon Roskill in Information Week, Digital Transformation is not magic, is not “one and done.” It is not a spell the mere incantation of which will create abundance and prosperity. It is a journey that requires both planning and dynamism- planning because we have to know where we are going in order to get there, and dynamism because we know that the “unknowns” will pop up along the way.

Digital Transformation neither starts nor ends with technology. It starts with a commitment to improve and ends with the creation of a lasting culture of open-ness and ability to deal with ambiguity. Along the way, technologies of all sorts play an important role and enable people and processes.

Digital Transformation can be both recognizable and unrecognizable from the outside. In some examples- like mobile-ordering at Starbucks, the effects are visible- new scenarios emerge and change human behavior. Of course, one can only imagine the years of planning and implementation that went into that!

At other times, Digital Transformation simply “melts into the air.” When the integration of Business Applications saves an employee 10 minutes of work per transaction- that is absolutely Digital Transformation but we as consumers don’t really “see it.”

Digital Transformation, thus, can be both sexy and quotidian. Either way, it is important and backed by inspiration and perspiration.

For mid-sized companies, this hard work will not necessarily make the cover of the newspaper or be bandied about in online forums. But when we remember the spirit of the word “transformation,” we realize that indeed SMBs can truly be transformed with the right vision and execution, in real and not just rhetorical terms.

The good news is that many technology platform companies are beginning to understand just how fertile the SMB market is. Reality is loud- The Digital Transformation journey in the Mid-Market is real.

 

July 28, 2021by Paul Dunay
Digital Transformation, Exec Interviews, Leadership, Transformation

Digital Transformation – Brass Tacks: Interview with Dharmesh Godha, President Advaiya

Marketing Darwinism:  Dharmesh you’ve been on our pages before, welcome back.  Tells us about the progress at Advaiya.

Dharmesh: Thanks Paul.  2020 has been a year of massive amplitudes.  In society, there are many people who are suffering and have lost loves ones and jobs. In the business world, companies of all sizes have been jolted into a new state of being; many have realized that all of the earlier talk about sustainability, disaster recovery, and- frankly- agility was real.  Black swan events happen and will happen and companies need the digital infrastructure and a corresponding culture to manage through them.  We’ve been very fortunate to be able to help a variety of organizations through this process this year.

Marketing Darwinism:  Can you give us more specifics? Can we move away from “Digital Transformation” as a one-size fits all approach?

Dharmesh:  We agree.  The details and nuances are the nub of the matter.  We believe very strongly in a vertical contextuality not just a patina of “understanding” that is really in practice superficial.  I can’t help a Financial Services company create a digital backbone if I don’t understand its customers, its regulatory environment, and the changing landscape in the space.  Similarly, we’ve seen the healthcare system buckle under lack of capacity because earlier consultants thought of them as “any old” industry and convinced them to be “just in time.” In reality, they are a social service that requires a peak load view not a base load view.  These snapshots of vertical insight differentiate us often.

Marketing Darwinism:  In a WFH or now Work-From-Anywhere context, how do organizations need to think about digitization?

Dharmesh:  We have believed in WFA and SFA (Source from Anywhere) for a long time.  We have understood that the best talent for the job can be found anywhere and that our customers themselves are not fixed in time and space.  We believe that in a WFH and WFA context, the “silicon” isn’t the full solution- people and culture are a big part of the equation.  Technology infrastructure and applications need to enable them to uncover new scenarios and act on them.  That is the heart of real innovation and progress.

Marketing Darwinism:  How is Advaiya’s growth orientation?

Dharmesh:  Over the last 5 years, we’ve had a continuous, secular growth trajectory.  Q2 of this year was a hiccup as we all adjusted to the new reality of Covid.  But as companies sought change and wisdom and frankly help in Q3, we’ve seen our growth return.  Right now, we are focused purely on customers and partnerships; growth will persist if we maintain that focus.

Marketing Darwinism:  You work a lot in aiding marketing organizations.  How is that going?

Dharmesh:  In our incarnation as an agency- for content, digital assets, analytics, visualization of data, and so on, we attempt to be an organic part of the teams we support.  Marketing teams have been wonderful to work with- at times we are simply a human-being extension and at times we are developing markets together.  None of our offerings are atomic- they all connect to a larger marketing reality.

Marketing Darwinism:  What’s next?

Dharmesh:  We have a lot planned for 2021. We are continuing our big push with applications and infrastructure but also with our “last mile” customer work.  As we grow in both North America and Asia, we’ve been able to bring on some exceptional talent.  As with everything, they’ll help us define what is next!

December 14, 2020by Paul Dunay
Content Marketing, Digital Transformation, Exec Interviews

Executive Interview with Manish Godha, CEO of Advaiya

Marketing Darwinism: Manish, Advaiya has been going strong for over a decade now.  Tell us about your evolution.

Manish:  Paul, you used the right word here- evolution.  Our company has grown and evolved a great deal since it was just an idea in our minds years ago, to now being able to list in our roster or customers and partners over 100 companies and over 500 individuals as ongoing customers.  We are at once proud and humbled.  Advaiya started as a Microsoft partner, focused on Enterprise Project Management, and has evolved into a full-service Application Developer, Integrator, and Implementer and a full-scale Digital and Content Agency.  Under one roof, we connect to and service some of the world’s largest companies hailing from North America, Asia, and Europe but also innovative startups and what are deemed “traditional” companies in the manufacturing and services spaces.  We are having a blast.

Marketing Darwinism:  Big Tech has grown into the most powerful economic force in the world.  How do you see that as it relates to Advaiya’s growth?

Manish: We are lucky in this regard in two ways.  First, we have very good relationships with companies that constitute “Big Tech” and continue to partner with them actively.  In fact, many of our outbound efforts are conducted jointly with large companies.  We feel very lucky in that regard.  Second, and maybe even more importantly, the notions of Digital Transformation are real and we are able to offer a layer of know-how, IP, and process on top of the amazing platforms these companies build- we offer them to a slew of customers of a variety of sizes and across verticals.  Companies that many deem as “old world” are in fact embracing Digital Transformation with a speed and vigor that would surprise all the naysayers.  So, again, we have a twofold win here- as customers and as value-add partners.

Marketing Darwinism:  Okay so you said it.  Digital Transformation. Unpack that for me.

Manish: We all know of the clichés and we all know about hyperbole.  But what’s lost in all that are real stories of learning, transformation, growth, culture change, and yes mistakes too.  Digital Transformation is not about rhetorical shifts but about profound changes in the actual processes and products/services an organization uses to engage, operate, and execute.  Isn’t that the goal ultimately?  Digital Transformation implies something deeper too- an ongoing, persistent commitment to honing, improving, and creating efficiencies.  We work with amazing companies that are discovering the mind-bending results of say well-implemented CRM solutions, Data visualization and effective dash-boarding, implementing an effective data strategy, building engaging digital artifacts, and so on.  Being even a small part of that is heady.

Marketing Darwinism:  What do you tell prospective customers to get them to want to work with Advaiya?

Manish: We approach these conversations with a clear view that we must put our best foot forward with all customers.  We have to be able to understand context, culture, as well as the business needs in order to truly be effective.  Even when we were a small team, we were working with some of the world’s largest corporations on critical projects.  There was no room for anything but our A+-game.  Though we have expanded our personnel and our footprint, there is no different in our attitude or our execution.  This is in our view attributable to 4 elements:

First, we are very picky about hiring.  About a third of the company has been with us since inception.  Another third has been with us for over 5 years.  We love growth but it has to be done in a way that does not diminish results.

Second, we have incredible customers who understand that long-term partnerships produce the best results. We are not here just to transact.  We are here to build together.

Third, we are a constant-learning organization.  This applies to the latest technologies, the latest processes and certifications, but also a fundamental dedication to listening.  Learning is key.  Our Chief HR Officer is really our Chief Learning Officer.

Fourth, when we falter, we correct quickly.  We cannot be caught up in the ego and pretensions of being right always.  We are not.

If these factors make sense to you, then please work with us.  Else, let’s just be friends!

Marketing Darwinism:  Any parting thoughts?

Manish: The new technologies and applications, powered by AI and ML and built for customer engagement and improvement are worth looking at. We have a breadth of expertise and the curiosity to learn how to quickly apply these technologies to real scenarios.  We love to listen.  And then to go about making real contributions.

September 14, 2020by Paul Dunay
Blockchain, Customer Experience, Digital Transformation, Innovation, Smart Contracts, Tokens

Interview with Christopher Woodrow, CEO of MovieCoin

Marketing Darwinism caught up with Christopher Woodrow, CEO of MovieCoin, an innovative company that tokenizes movie projects and other real assets. By writing these assets to the blockchain and using smart contracts to automate transaction, the company is digitizing the entertainment industry’s inefficient, paper-based supply chain. With its goal to bring significant volumes of new investment capital into the film business by transforming traditional financing processes, MovieCoin is creating “Hollywood 2.0.”

Marketing Darwinism: Christopher, tell us about MovieCoin.  What you have going on seems revolutionary.

Christopher:  Thank you, Paul. We started MovieCoin in 2017 after realizing that blockchain and security tokens had the potential to bring unprecedented levels of transparency and liquidity into the film economy.

Shortly thereafter we started seeking a qualified technical partner who could help bring life to our vision of creating access, unleashing creativity, improving liquidity, and boosting cross-industry collaboration in the entertainment industry. That’s when we met Igor Khmel, founder and CEO at technology development firm BANKEX,  and realized there was tremendous synergy between the two sides. The technology we’re developing sets us up for huge success in 2019 and beyond.

Marketing Darwinism: If we understand properly, there are several components to your business.  Can you shed some light here?

Christopher: Absolutely. The MovieCoin platform includes a website, wallet, distributed application and mobile application, which enable accredited investors to participate in financing quality feature films initially sourced by MovieCoin’s seasoned media executives and held within the company’s Smart Fund. Investing in this portfolio requires purchasing MovieCoin Smart Fund (“MSF”) security tokens that represent an ownership stake in the Fund. They offer a more liquid means of entry into film financing than traditional methods lacking a secondary market.

A separate cryptocurrency, Moviecoin Tokens, will denominate value for B2B and B2C transactions throughout MovieCoin’s ecosystem. Moviecoin Tokens (“MOV”) are publicly available as a cash substitute that brings more speed and transparency to revenue distribution and tracking. This holistic view of product performance, including revenue shares; licensing ownership; and intellectual property rights, prevents third-parties from holding onto capital owed to investors and talent for longer than necessary.

Over time, the company will also introduce MovieCoin ‘as-a-Service’, inviting major film studios to market their own film and television financing opportunities to a broader audience using MSF tokens. MOV tokens also provide consumer behavior data to help businesses refine their marketing efforts.

Marketing Darwinism: This makes perfect sense. Tell us about the team you’ve assembled to tackle this. 

Christopher: Well I’m a financer and film producer who has led the production of box office successes including “Black Mass,” “Hacksaw Ridge,” and Academy Award Best Picture, “Birdman.” The company’s broader executive team brings a wealth of experience from investment banking; portfolio management; corporate law; film financing, production and distribution; technology deployment and public company management. Combined with outstanding technologists and marketers, we have a well-rounded team that fundamentally believes in this opportunity to create Hollywood 2.0.

Marketing Darwinism: You refer to your Bankex partnership often.  Can you explain a bit more?

Christopher: BANKEX is a critical partner in our mission to launch MovieCoin. Igor Khmel, founder and CEO, is a visionary in the world of financial technology who’s created a preeminent bank-as-a-service blockchain-based company. By combining their technical expertise with our inherent knowledge of film financing, production and distribution, this cooperation will be the foundation for MovieCoin’s success.

Marketing Darwinism: Any parting thoughts?

Christopher: There are several components to our company that, while complex, will act in unison to democratize access, share knowledge, and improve the film and entertainment industry as we know it. I ask anyone who is keen to learn more about MovieCoin to reach out to us via our social channels with all your questions, sign up for our newsletter to receive regular updates, or check out the company’s whitepaper.

October 24, 2018by Paul Dunay
Applications, Big Data, Business Intelligence, Cloud, Digital Transformation, Innovation, Strategy

Interview with Joe Martin CEO of CloudFit Software and Kyle Wagner CFO of CloudFit Software

Marketing Darwinism: I’m very interested in CloudFit’s strategy. Can you tell our readers a bit more about it?

JM: Thanks Paul for your affirmation. CloudFit is in the “Managed Digital Transformation” space. What this means specifically is that Digital Transformation is very much a function of embracing the cloud and that migrating your applications and workloads to the cloud is not a “one and done” exercise. Cloud Migration as a concept has to be understand as both a set of generalizable principles but also as a very individual factor as each business has its own priorities and constraints. Our software and services accelerate this journey and allow customers to “migrate, monitor, and measure” their cloud applications.

Marketing Darwinism: Fascinating. So is this mostly about financial savings (since you mentioned acceleration?)

KW: It’s about operational excellence of which a piece is financial savings, a piece is accountability, and a piece is working in the background so that the organization can grow its core business and innovate versus getting all its energies caught up in the transformation itself. As a CFO I think about my peers and their needs but I also think about the roles of the CIO and CEO as they are charged with technology-enabled futures.

Marketing Darwinism: You two boast 4 decades of collective Microsoft experience and your three other Principals add another 4 decades. Wow! Tell me about that.

JM and KW: Microsoft has played a huge role in our collective learning and imagination. We are humbled to have been part of Microsoft’s journey to the forefront of Enterprise Computing, Cloud Services, and related areas. We are proud of the large scale we helped enable. Microsoft and its amazing people continue to be core partners and vectors for our success. Clearly, the customers are our main focus and at times they run hybrid or non-Microsoft environments. As a software and services company we have to both respect the customers’ needs but also remember where we came from!

Marketing Darwinism: You are a young company but have already done a major acquisition. That’s very ambitious. Am I reading this correctly?

JM: Paul thanks for this question. Yes, our acquisition of Composable Systems cemented both our team but also our ongoing and deep relationships with core customers. We are indeed young but are very hungry to add value and wanted to create a force multiplier early. We welcomed not only the revenue and customer streams but also the team and expertise.

KW: I’d like to add to this too. We all have had big company backgrounds as you know; I’ve also had the pleasure to help build one of the fastest growing technology companies in the Northwest and understand the importance of building the right team and equipping them with the right tools from the get-go. We didn’t start CloudFit to be a lifestyle business but instead of grow quickly as a function of our value-add.

Marketing Darwinism: What do your customers say about you?

JM: Paul, thanks for bringing it back to them. We get very favorable reviews from our customers, many of whom consider us as key partners in their Digital Transformation. In the earlier days, we had a few hiccups and we learned from these. We went in with confident humility and have improved our customer story, interaction, and value-delivery each and every day. We hope to continue to improve. But overall we feel very good about this area of our business.

Marketing Darwinism: What’s the “Garden-variety” case for someone to contact CloudFit?

KW and JM: We believe that any organization that knows they want to transform but needs to understand what the journey is and how to do it in a methodical and accountable way while accelerating time to value is a perfect conversation for us. We want to partner with all organizations that are entering this journey and need to connect their Business needs with this IT process. We believe that Managed Digital Transformation is a very large space and is where the puck is going.

September 26, 2018by Paul Dunay
Cloud, Digital Transformation, Lead Generation, Marketing, People, ROI, Strategy

Digital Transformation is not just for Large Enterprises

Marketing Darwinism caught up with Kathy Visser-May, CMO of Acumatica, the world’s fastest growing Cloud ERP company. Kathy is a celebrated Marketer with experience traversing technology giants like Microsoft and PeopleSoft/Oracle and hyper-growth companies like Acumatica. Recently, she was named a CRN 2018 Woman in the Channel.

MD: Kathy, tell us a bit about Acumatica. We hear about the torrid growth. Any color you can add?

Kathy: Thanks Paul. Acumatica is focused on helping mid-size companies transform their business with a modern system that grows as they grow. The most forward-thinking companies are disrupting themselves to ensure they continue to be the architects of their future. This trend is affecting all industries, it doesn’t matter if you build buildings, manufacture auto parts, sell shoes online; disruption is happening, requiring companies to change how they operate and provide value to customers. As a result, the requirements of a mid market business to be competitive today are as complex as large enterprises were 10 years ago.

We have built a flexible, powerful, and secure platform that offers them speed and scale and connects their business in an end-to-end way. The growth is testament to the quality of the product and our unique licensing and deployment models that enable customers to scale as their business grows.

MD: You emphasize the Channel a great deal at Acumatica. Is it true that you are a 100%- Through-Channel company?

Kathy: For us, the Channel is our lifeblood. These amazing companies sell to and service customers with a deep understanding of their business needs across many industries and geographies. I like to say we don’t compete with our channel, we feed it. My team spends 50%+ of our resources and marketing dollars on creating high quality sales leads for our partners. Partners tell me all the time one of the reasons, in addition to our modern, cloud solution, they love selling Acumatica is because of our commitment to this model. We provide the Channel not only with technical knowledge but sales and implementation support as well. Such harmony is unheard of typically. So, yes, we are 100% Channel.

MD: You mentioned Digital Transformation. What does this mean specifically in the Acumatica context?

Kathy:
We love the phrase Digital Transformation but are also aware of its shortcomings. For many businesses, the phrase implies something arcane and something “other” than what they are doing. But when you inspect the issue, ask the right questions, and find out that these very organizations are migrating to the cloud, digitizing process, and unifying Business and IT, you realize that they are in fact doing Digital Transformation. In our conception, it’s about two things: Operations and Customer Experience. We help Medium-sized companies operate in a manner that allows them to spend their energies engaging with customers and conferring that constantly-improving experience that their rightfully demanding customers ask for. The core concept of the DX journey is that the system at the center of the business must be one that is capable of housing the data needed across the business operations and the ability to provide real-time data and connection across all systems. Systems that house islands of data that have to be synchronized and reconciled are no longer effective in the modern world.

MD: ERP can at times seem “old hat.” What about emerging technologies?

Kathy: There are a few things embedded in this question. For some, the idea of ERP might seem to be yesterday’s news but for growing companies seeking to improve their engagement and experience, ERP can very well be a fresh and new way to approach their business. We are adaptable, flexible, and natively Cloud-based not cumbersome and laborious to implement. Interestingly, emerging technologies, especially AI, are a core pillar of our business. 75% of our resources are technical and we never have and never will stop engineering new products that transform how businesses operate and deliver value to customers.

May 30, 2018by Paul Dunay
Business Process Automation, Cloud, Customer, Customer Experience, Customer Support, Digital Transformation, Marketing, Optimization

Interview with Tom Taylor of Blueprint Technologies

Marketing Darwinism met up with Tom Taylor, Managing Director of Blueprint Technologies on his recent trip to NYC. Excerpts from the conversation:

MD: Tom, Blueprint has won award after award for phenomenal growth and customer satisfaction. What’s going on?

Tom: Thanks a ton; we are humbled by the recognition. We believe our success can be attributed to a combination of our unique perspective, drive for innovation, laser focus on the customer, and the quality of our team, our customers, and our partners. We’ve been very agile in addressing market and customer needs – we move quickly and have established a solid track record of delivering superior customer value.

MD: Great. You lead Client Development at Blueprint, tell us about your approach and where Marketing fits in.

Tom: Our approach is very execution-oriented. We hire entrepreneurial doers with amazing track records in industry and surround them with top-notch technologists and delivery professionals to amplify their effectiveness. That’s a core part of the collaborative approach we take at Blueprint – Client Development doesn’t end with the team I lead, it runs across the entire company. At Blueprint, “all hands on deck” really means that everyone aligns around customer value, and delivery excellence.

MD: Marketing?

Tom: We’re constantly refining the sophistication of the handshake between Marketing and Client Development, and investing strategically to really accelerate this. Tight integration between Marketing and Client Development is what will continue to drive momentum and support scale as we continue to grow.

MD: What do you see in the Marketplace?

Tom: We’re lucky to be in the Seattle area, which is at the forefront of a good number of key technology trends. Data Science, AI, Machine Learning, Business Process Automation, Cloud Solutions – all of these are top of mind for many of our customers right now. We often find that while the organizations we work with aspire to these higher order capabilities, they have foundational enablers that need to be addressed at the core infrastructure level around cloud migration, data engineering, modern workforce tool sets, etc. One of Blueprint’s key value propositions is our ability to traverse and up-level the entire organizational capabilities stack from core infrastructure up to customer experience optimization – this allows our customers to achieve wholistic digital transformation rather than just incremental single-point solutions.

May 2, 2018by Paul Dunay
Buzz Marketing, Content Marketing, Conversational Marketing, Digital Transformation, Interactive Marketing, Lead Generation, Lead Nurturing, Online Testing, Real Time Marketing

Interview with Srivats Srinivasan of Nayamode

I sat down with Srivats Srinivasan, an associate and entrepreneur. Srivats’ company, Nayamode, just acquired a Bay-Area agency called Bluewave. Interesting to see Seattle companies buying Bay Area outfits! I was particularly interested in this because of the role Marketing plays in Digital Transformation- this acquisition was based on Nayamode rounding out its Digital Transformation services.

Some excerpts from the chat …

Marketing Darwinism: Srivats, congratulations on both Nayamode’s success and the recent acquisition of Bluewave. Tell us more about your strategy.

SS: Thanks. We felt strongly that growth and evolution – really our journey to the next phase – required deepening elements of our skill-set as it pertains to the overall rubric of Digital Transformation. In this case, we were enamored with Bluewave’s deep design and visual storytelling track-record and understood that it was a key element in this next phase for us. The strong team and delightful customer base was a wonderful addition too!

Marketing Darwinism: You mentioned Digital Transformation. In your conception, what does it mean exactly?

SS: Yes, we understand that it is a term bandied about, almost in fact too much. In our view, Digital Transformation is about using technology judiciously and in context to create products, processes, and services that enhance and accelerate the best parts of the organization and keep the worst tendencies at bay. Digital Transformation is neither a one-size fits all “thing” nor is it an overnight turn. As with most fundamental shifts, there is a journey required and technology plays only so big a role.

Marketing Darwinism: Nayamode is one of those interesting stories insofar as you’ve grown without really marketing yourself in a broad sense. As Marketers, our readers would love to understand a bit more about your strategy here.

SS: You are no doubt generally correct but we are changing! At the outset, we grew through the sales process, leveraging our connections and experience in Marketing in large organizations, mostly in technology. As we grew, we certainly evolved, but were lucky in that our customers and we created deep partnerships in which as long as we continued to do great work and listen, we remained loyal to each other. Also, we had a bit of the “Cobbler’s Children” problem in which we paid so much attention externally that at times we neglected ourselves. That has changed however. In this phase, very much the most exciting phase in our history as a company, telling our story will be an integral part of the strategy. We are humbled to be included, for instance, in this blog.

Editor’s Note: While in some cases Marketing is an afterthought, we believe that Marketing firms can lead the process of Digital Transformation because of their keen view of the customer and their expertise in pivoting quickly based on business models and customer needs. This traverses the B to B and B to C spaces. We want to hear about other cases of M&A by Marketing companies looking to complete their Digital Transformation portfolios.

April 18, 2018by Paul Dunay

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Welcome to my blog, my name is Paul Dunay and I lead Red Hat's Financial Services Marketing team Globally, I am also a Certified Professional Coach, Author and Award-Winning B2B Marketing Expert. Any views expressed are my own.

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